Hi Norbert,
Thanks for your thoughts. It's good that we can feel that we are able =20=
to share ideas.
There is an interesting reply to the column in today's Nation. It's a =20=
letter to the editor. I share it with you and others if I may. I think =20=
it's a strong reaction for sure. For me the reader's reaction to the =20
column is more interesting than the content of his message.
This is my interpretation of the letter below: the writer is =20
experiencing culture shock-- his own culturally specific formulation of =20=
the world--that which validates himself and his rationale for =20
meaning/value in the world makes him have a hard time coming to terms =20=
with the fact that the world beyond him does not need to share his =20
assumptions.
But, this applies to all of us, of course. The problems in =20
communication and coexistence occurs when we lose the ability or see =20
the need to question and analyze our assumptions.
Sacha
------------------------------------------------------------------------=20=
--
Post-Western theory refuted
Published on Apr 18, 2003
Thammasat academic is wrongheaded and dogmatic in his assessment of the =20=
origins and nature of Western civilisation
Recently, The Nation has published two editorial articles by Thirayuth =20=
Boonmi ("Not anti-Western, rather post-Western", April 15, and "A way =20=
toward a post-western critique", April 16). The first was amazing. The =20=
second was astounding.
Both are remarkable for two things: one is a first year undergraduate's =20=
excessive use of the incomprehensible jargon of academic political =20
science and literary criticism of the 1980s; the second is a stunning =20=
collection of disjointed and often false assertions.
"Post-Modernism", "deconstruction", "meta-narrative"? These were all =20
the rage at the time of Foucault, also referred to by Thirayuth, but =20
Foucault has been dead for some time now, and his work, whilst =20
brilliant, is being revised and amended by the current generation of =20
French intellectuals.
And Freud? Sigmund's ideas have not been used by any consensus, except =20=
that of film critics, for decades. Thirayuth speaks as though Western =20=
psychology was still in the heyday of Freudianism - it isn't.
Several assertions really stood out:
1 - "Despite a swift victory over Iraq, the self isolating and brute =20
force war reflects a declining US political and military influence in =20=
the world."
Thirayuth did not offer any reason for this claim, so I can not imagine =20=
what he was thinking when he wrote it.
A swift victory is surely evidence of military might, and the efforts =20=
of the rest of the world to get back into the USA's good books, to =20
share in the spoils, suggest that US political influence is still in =20
the ascendant. The mere fact that the USA could even think of going it =20=
alone in the face of considerable international and domestic opposition =20=
surely argues that they are politically and militarily way ahead of the =20=
rest of the pack.
I have not heard anyone except Thirayuth and Saddam Hussein suggest =20
that US military or political might was on the decline. Are we also to =20=
believe the contrary - that Saddam's loss is evidence of increasing =20
military and political influence?
2 - "The West invented Classical Greek as the fountain and epitome of =20=
its classical cultural reason, philosophy and arts. However this is =20
pure fiction. The illusion about the birth of Western civilisation =20
stretching to ancient Greek is an 18th century invention. The fact is =20=
also that Greeks borrowed heavily from Egypt and the Orient."
Wow! This falsehood really annoyed me. Again, it is blandly asserted =20
with no evidence, reason or references whatsoever. There is no reason =20=
or evidence for it because it is false. There are however some =20
references, for example: M Bernal, "Black Athena: The Afro-asiatic =20
Roots of Class-ical Civilisation, Vol 1: The Fabrication of Ancient =20
Greece 1785 - 1985" (New Bruns-wick, 1987).
This sounds like it might be the work that led Thirayuth to confidently =20=
assure us that the West didn't really all start in Ancient Greece. The =20=
only problem is, it's wrong.
Yes, the Greeks did get their script from the Phoenicians, and yes, =20
there was trade and intercourse between the Greeks and Egypt and the =20
rest of the East, and yes they probably did borrow some building =20
designs and things from other countries, but the basic values, the =20
cultural traits that set the West apart, all arose first in Ancient =20
Greece, and there is no evidence to prove otherwise.
For example: democracy - the Greeks were the first to allow that people =20=
might rule themselves, make up their own laws, and not be under the =20
sway of kings.
Another example: political freedom - which goes with democracy, the =20
idea that individuals had a right to say how they were governed, as =20
well as by whom. Another example: free inquiry - the idea that it was =20=
not only permissible, but good and proper to examine any and all =20
beliefs critically, in a search for truth, and that truth was not =20
something determined by the word of the current pharaoh, king, or high =20=
priest.
This gave rise to philosophy, one of the greatest gifts of the Greeks =20=
to the rest of the world. Yet another example: literature - as opposed =20=
to religious or other dogma in the service of the rulers.
3 - I would like to comment on several of Thirayuth's other astonishing =20=
assertions, like his 30 or 40 geometries of the universe, the =20
entrenchment of Western values in Thai minds, and their excessive =20
familiarity with Shakespeare, and the cultural hegemony of Greco-Roman =20=
ideals of physical beauty, but perhaps another time.
My next point will probably upset Thirayuth as much as his false and =20
unfounded claims annoyed me: it is that not only does the Western =20
tradition date back to the Ancient Greeks, but that it is spreading =20
around the world because it is better than all the alternatives. Greek =20=
culture spread to the Romans, who diligently spread it to the rest of =20=
the Western European and Near Eastern world. It took hold strongly in =20=
some areas and more weakly in others - always opposed by those who are =20=
afraid of free thinking, democracy, self-determination, social justice, =20=
and so on.
There were dark ages, when the Greeks and Romans were almost lost to =20
us, but since the Renaissance (a bit before the 18th century), Greek =20
and Latin, along with the culture and values they embody, have been on =20=
an ascendancy. This has been good for all countries where Western =20
influence has been felt - from the USA, whose founding fathers =20
deliberately created a constitution that Aristotle would have been =20
proud of, to Thailand, where the rights of ordinary people have been =20
slowly but surely increasing, along with the standard of living made =20
possible by Western science and technology.
Thirayuth thinks that as more non-Europeans took up the call of science =20=
and technology that it would become non-Western (post-Western in his =20
pop jargon) - wrong again. Non-Europeans are making more contributions =20=
to science and technology to the extent that their societies are =20
becoming Westernised. You can not have genuine science and =20
technological progress on the Western scale without those other Western =20=
things like free inquiry, freedom from religious dogma, and freedom =20
from regal interference. All cultures are not equal - they can be =20
better or worse, and the West is the best.
Hence its popularity with ordinary people everywhere. Not just its =20
material benefits, like modern medicine, mobile phones, good clothes, =20=
clean food, etc, but also its political and social values - like =20
democracy, free speech, free inquiry, social justice, etc. Hence also =20=
its unpopularity with entrenched elites who prefer the masses to remain =20=
as they always were.
Two points before I finish: the USA is not the sole embodiment of the =20=
West, and George Bush is not a good instance of a Western leader - he =20=
is poorly educated, unable to keep his private religious views to =20
himself, not very keen on critical analysis (possibly incapable of it), =20=
but he was duly elected, and the US constitution is probably strong =20
enough to withstand his temporary reign. Hopefully the American people =20=
are still familiar enough with the spirit of the Greeks and Romans to =20=
correct their error at the next election.
To know what Western values truly are, and to understand the best the =20=
West has to offer, you need to read the Greeks and Romans - all readily =20=
available in excellent translations (at least into English - I don't =20
know about Thai). Then read Western philosophy, literature and history, =20=
and science even.
If Thirayuth had taken the trouble to read Aristophanes, Plato, =20
Euripides, Aristotle, Lucretius, Cicero, Kant, Shakespeare, Hume, =20
Locke, Rawls, Nozick, etc., he would have found that all the things he =20=
favours were there already, some 2,500 years ago, and have been ever =20
recurring ideals in the West since then.
Peter Filicietti
Peter Filicietti, who graduated first in his Honours class in =20
philosophy from Sydney University, also studied Chinese, Latin and =20
Mathematics. He currently teaches English at AUA.
On Wednesday, Apr 16, 2003, at 01:25 Asia/Bangkok, Norbert Klein wrote:
> Dear Sacha,
>
> thanks for sharing the considerations "Not anti-Western, rather
> post-Western" from The Nation/Bangkok, with us. I find it very =20
> challenging, as we are so
> often faced with the question: where - in history and in this =20
> globalized
> world - do we stand, and where do we go.
>
> In a not totally unrelated sense I recently wrote something trying to
> clarify how - even within the so called Western world - we have to =20
> struggle where
> we come from, and where we might go. I dare to share this also with =
all
> friends in this group. It relates also with the powers that control =20=
> the flow of
> information in society, and the Summits ahead of us.
>
> Norbert
>
>
> =3D =3D =3D
>
> Phnom Penh Post, 28 March =96 10 April 2003, page 13.
>
>
> Old Europe vs. New USA
>
> After the US Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, called France and
> Germany "Old Europe," the German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer =20
> responded, "Well
> said!" as "Old Europe" has its long traditions and values from which =20=
> derive
> certain principles that guide present policy.
>
> In contrast, a number of statements of US policy leaders are extremely
> surprising, given that they relate to the life and death of thousands =20=
> of people.
> Is this the voice of the "New United States of America"?
>
> On February 6, 2003, President Bush declared that the government of =20=
> Iraq had
> thrown away its final chance - while the UN weapons inspectors were
> continuing their work, finding answers and clarifying open questions - =
=20
> and that "now
> the game is over." To which French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin =
=20
> said
> the Iraq crisis "is not a game" and it is "not over."
>
> At the Azores press conference on March 17, it seemed to be to Bush a =20=
> game
> again, when he explained his view of what had happened at the UN =20
> Security
> Council: "I was the guy that said they ought to vote. And one country =20=
> voted,
> showed their cards. I believe it's an old Texas expression: show your =20=
> cards, when
> you're playing poker. France showed their cards. After I said what =
they
> said, they said they are going to veto anything that held Saddam to =20=
> account. So
> cards have been played."
>
> But the French position had been to take the government of Iraq to =20
> account;
> it accepted and supported the pleading of the UN weapons inspectors =20=
> that more
> time - "not years, but months" - would be needed to complete their =20
> task.
>
> The overall US Marine commander, Lieutenant-General James Conway, who
> commands more than 85,000 US Marines and British troops waiting to =20
> attack,
> predicted on March 16 that war would begin with a three or four-day =20=
> bombing campaign,
> to kill half of the Iraqi military close to the border, before moving =20=
> into
> Iraq. He told his troops not to worry about peace protests at home, as =
=20
> the
> support for the war was growing: "When we invade Iraq, that'll go up =20=
> to 91
> percent. And you know how I feel about it? Piss on everybody else."
>
> The US tested its newest 21,000 pound (9.5 tonne) bomb, 40 percent =20
> stronger
> than the strongest bomb used in Afghanistan, on March 11 in Florida: =20=
> "It
> spreads a flammable mist over the target, then ignites it, producing a =
=20
> highly
> destructive blast." While other such bombs were being prepared for =20
> transport to
> anti-Iraqi units, a member of the US Air Force who had learned to =20
> adjust his
> spelling to French - had painted on it: "Fuque the French."
>
> On March 18, President Bush announced his ultimatum that "Saddam =20
> Hussein and
> his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours; their refusal to do so will =20=
> result
> in military conflict commenced at a time of our choosing," showering =20=
> death
> on many innocent people in Iraq. He concluded his speech: "Good night, =
=20
> and may
> God continue to bless America."
>
> The following day, the Pope spoke about the "precious gift of goodwill =
=20
> and
> peace ... for all of humanity, especially those people threatened in =20=
> these
> hours by war. I pray that ... in this moment of trepidation for peace, =
=20
> the
> desire for harmony and reconciliation is revived... Those who decide =20=
> that all
> peaceful means that international law makes available are exhausted =20=
> assume a
> grave responsibility before God, their conscience, and history."
>
> As a person from Old Europe, I would like to see similar language and
> serious content from the leaders of the United States, instead of talk =
=20
> about poker,
> pissing on the peace movement, and threatening to fuque the French.
>
> Norbert Klein
> Phnom Penh
> =3D =3D =3D
>
> --=20
> Norbert Klein
> Open Forum of Cambodia
> Phnom Penh/Cambodia
>
>
>
attatchment (text/enriched) ignored